Wishful Wednesday - Lesile & Marie or Jake & Jennie Timbrel

Yesterday, I wrote about my 2x Great Grandparents Jacob & Jennie Timbrel and how much I think about them.  It's not just their headstones that is always on my mind but them in specific.  One thing that has always been on my mind is the fact that I have not seen any photo's of them...together or separately.  With the exception of two photo's included in a book called "North Park" written by Hazel Gresham.   North Park is the name of the area surrounding Walden, Colorado where Jake & Jennie lived for a good portion of their life.  I only have copies of the book though, so it doesn't make for a very good picture.

Since I first went through my Grandma & Grandpa (Lloyd & Helen) Timbrel's photo's I have searched for Jake & Jennie.  Every cousin I touch base with I ask if they have a photo.  And so far I have not been lucky in my search.

I have a photo though that has haunted me for all these long years that I found in with my Grandparent's photos.  My Mom has written on the back "Leslie Crayton & Marie Myrtle He made fishing flies up to the day he died".  When I questioned her she swore that it was Grandpa Les & Grandma Marie.  But for some reason it has just never seemed to fit for me.  A feeling you could say, that I was not looking at Grandpa Les & Grandma Marie.

I decided this week to take a closer look at this "haunting" photo of mine.

Maybe the reason this photo has haunted me for so long is the age of both the photo and the people in the photo.  I don't have any real "proof" but by the time my Grandpa Les was this age it would have been the late 40's early 50's.  Grandpa Les passed away in 1958 at the age of 65. When my Grandpa Jake passed away in 1939 he was 79.  In order for that to be Grandma Marie (it would have to have been taken before 1958 when my Grandpa Les passed)  she would have to have been younger than 57.  And just to finish establishing age my Grandma Jennie was 76 at the time of her death in 1938.  I have concluded two things: 1. If it is Grandpa Jake & Grandma Jennie it would have had to be taken prior to 1938.  2. If it is Grandpa Les & Grandma Marie it could have been taken as late as 1958.

I can't age the photo from the paper it was printed on, as you can see all I have is a copy of the original. Or find a date which was sometimes printed on the photo also.

So now I look to the finer clues in the photo...more specifically my Grandma's (whichever one it might be) dress and headband.  This is a big clue for me.

One thing most of my relatives will agree on is the fact that they all knew that Jake & Jennie were "proper" people.  They dressed "to the nines", as I have been told.  Grandma Jennie had the white gloves and dress, and Grandpa Jake always was in a suit and tie.  If you notice in the one picture I have of my Grandma Jennie from the "North Park" book, she is at the river...dressed in her finery.  I can remember countless times my Mother would remark on the fact that she was in her dress out at the river.  I have always kept that in my mind also and maybe that might be another reason why this picture has always stuck out to me.

Taking a look at Grandma's dress, I can see first that she is wearing a headband....interesting.  But more importantly is her dress.  Up until around the 1910's most fashionable women's dresses had high necklines, long skirts and their sleeves went to their wrists.  After some research into dress styles in the early 1900's, I find that around 1910 the dress style starts to ease up.  Shorter hem lines and the neckline starts to move from very high to lower and even into V necks.  We know that by the 20's and the fad of flapper dresses that neckline gets low and the hem line even lower.  Love those flapper dresses! But that is not what I am working with here...sadly. I think after some...much...browsing on the internet that this dress style is from somewhere between 1900 and 1920.  I think probably more around 1910 but that is just a guess or well maybe only a slightly educated guess.  I was unable to get a better idea of the time based on the headband.  Headbands did not change much till the 20's when they became more flamboyant.

Moving on to Grandpa's suit, the first thing I notice is how short the tie is... Long, slimmer ties started becoming the fashion around the 1920's but men were still wearing short ties clear into the 40's.  So while a short tie like that made my eyes perk up, it wasn't a really good indication to form a time frame.  But I did find that his shirt collar was the fashion before 1920.  Before 1920 men's collar's were high and stiff.  The suit jacket also fits for early 20th century.  But just like the dress was a big clue for my Grandma, the hat is a big clue for Grandpa.  The hat he is wearing here is called a Newsboy cap and was especially popular from 1910 through 1920.  Although the newsboy cap was not a sign of wealth or social status, because most men and boys wore this hat from the poorest to the most wealthy, it is a good indication of time.  By the 1930's newsboy caps were out of style.  Taking another slightly educated guess I would say Grandpa's suit puts it somewhere between 1900 and 1920.  Just like Grandma's dress did.

Well, now that I have sufficiently bored you with my examination of Grandma & Grandpa's clothing I will move on to comparing them to known pictures of Grandpa Les & Grandma Marie, so you can see if they look to you like the same people.

For me, I can see a resemblance but is that because it's the same person or a father and son?  You decide.... When I showed this to my husband, he noticed that Les's nose looks longer and more pointy here than my so far unproved Grandpa.  But I will say this, my "haunting" photo is a bit blurry so that may not mean much.  I still am not convinced that this is Grandpa Les...but I will wait to make my conclusion. :)

I included two known photo's of my Grandma Marie, a younger and older version, to compare.  Again, I will leave it to you to decide.  But for me, I still am still skeptical.

Here is the last photo I will leave with you.  Notice how in this photo Grandma Marie is only slightly shorter than my Grandpa Les (also pictured is my Uncle Bobby).  Now if you look at the photo in question there is almost a whole head of difference.  If that is Grandma Marie, she sure got tall, and we can clearly see she is not wearing high heels to make up for the difference in height.

This is what I think...please let me know if you disagree...I think this IS a photo of my Grandpa Jake & Grandma Jennie.  I have dated the photo for somewhere between 1900 - 1920, though I am leaning towards 1910 sometime.  I think the people in my mystery photo are older and if it was Grandpa Les he would have been in his late teens/early 20's and Grandma Marie would have been in her early to late teens...not really of an "older" age.  And the height difference in the two women is very noticeable.

So could I have found a photo...I believe in my heart that I might have.  I would really love a second opinion...my husband's only partially counts as he wants to make me happy because he has to live with me if I am wrong ;)  But please feel free to point out anything I may have gotten wrong (you don't have to live with me lol)...or let me know if you agree...